What we've discovered so far

[make_your_move]

Last night we

This time with a different counselor. Our last appointment with the first counselor left us both in a 'thumbs neutral' post review. She is very nice, but her style didn't really resonate with us. She was helpful and brought up some salient points, but neither of us was rushing back to see her. Last night we saw a different counselor and both our immediate reviews left us much more comfortable with her, and we're both wanting to get back to her for more sessions. We'll have to see how it works into our budget - personally I'd like to see her every week, but our insurance doesn't cover any of it, so it would be a bit more than we can handle financially *sigh*

The downside is, for all the talking we did last night, I left more depressed than hopeful. Q and I seem to be on entirely different pages -- hell, we seem to be on entirely different continents on some issues. We're both listening, and acknowledging what the other is saying, but I don't think we're actually *getting* it. Funny, I thought if we could do the first two, the third would just come naturally. Problem is, we can see the other viewpoint from an academic side, acknowledge it's valid to the person feeling it, but since my needs are not needs that he has, he just doesn't grok it on an emotional level. I'd like to write more on this, but I am having a really hard time articulating the mish-mash going on in my own head, so at the moment I'll just leave it lie.

We both want things to be better, we both want things to not be broken, but neither of us know how to get from here to there anymore. If you can't get a core need met from your partner, what do you do?

Comments

[russell-moore.livejournal.com]

as a note, this shows as a public post sweetie ... is that what you wanted?

as for the topic, you have my sympathy ... however I do not have any useful advice as I do not think I have been in this particular situation except when things went completely south in my first marriage ... my needs were not being met then for sure, but there was no cooperation from the partner either ... at least you guys are giving it some work.

[pony-bootblack.livejournal.com]

this is where hubby and i have our struggles. he is unable and unwilling to meet my primary needs (although he does quite well at the secondary ones). We've spent a long time dealing with this very issue and i wish i had a good answer for you. Poly was the answer for us, so that my needs ARE getting met, just not by him, and our marriage is actually stronger because of it. I'm not sure its the prescription in every situation or even something that makes sense for everyone. But i do understand and will keep you both in my thoughts.

[meapet.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it takes a couple of visits to gain any headway with the situation you're going to the appointments for. *hugs* I can't offer much more than a hug and an ear if you need it.

[alricthemad.livejournal.com]

Glad you found someone that works for you.

Does he need to understand what you need or just accept it?
Same for the reverse.
Can either of you (or me or anyone for that matter) meet all of anyone elses needs?

Thanks for the opportunity for me to ask myself these questions......

::hugs::

[aztecknight.livejournal.com]

Can either of you (or me or anyone for that matter) meet all of anyone elses needs?


That is a question that I ask all the time. I think the answer is no. My wife thinks it should be yes.

[pyrategrrl.livejournal.com]

quickie, probably not fully thought out comment:

"Funny, I thought if we could do the first two, the third would just come naturally."

* what would be your definition of "getting it?"

* Is it ok for you both to have *different* needs as long as you're both invested and ok with the others needs being met on some level?

* both the DH and i have found needs for D/s, yet we have not yet found a space where we can fulfill that need for *each* other. So we have found a space that is comfy for meeting this particular need with other people, with having it mean that somehow something is *wrong* with our realtionship. How we got ther will take more time to write than i have at this moment. Can i call this evening?

[pyrategrrl.livejournal.com]

er typo- "withOUT it having it mean that something is wrong" . blerk.

Nothing to be sad about dear

[sierra-victor.livejournal.com]

It's work. It takes time. And, you're going to love this, but it may get worse before it gets better.

Here's the good news: You're already ahead of the same. You are seeing someone. You are both talking. You are both listening.

See where you are in six months. Yes, six months, and you'll be in a better position to know what's going on.

A final thought, keep working on articulating what's going on inside of you. Until you know what's really going on with you, it will be hard for Q., or anyone else, to get it.

Take care princess and keep working on it.

With Love,

S_V

[orlacarey.livejournal.com]

If you can't get a core need met from your partner, what do you do?

Take this with a grain of salt because you know my current relationship and that's the closest I've had to a "successful" relationship. I think when you get to this point the two of you need to acknowledge that the core need isn't being met, and look for that need to be met with someone else. As long as the two of you are comfy with certain needs being met by other people you should be okay - not that I'm saying it won't take work.

[lil-kevin.livejournal.com]

I wish you both the success and happiness you both need and desire from this process. If it was easy... everyone would be doing it. The fact that it is hard but you still work toward the goal is to me the best evidence that this will work out in the end.

[babalon-it.livejournal.com]

Glad you found someone you like. It's pretty common for people to be on entirely different pages. Give it time. And pay attention to the great advice you've gotten already here.

[bittibuddha.livejournal.com]

I know its hard to have to realize that KNOWING about each other's needs does not necessarily equate into MEETING them. or even ~wanting~ to.

you have to learn where you and your relationship ::are:: before you can plot a path forward (together). It will probably be difficult to learn every instance where there is a disconnect between you, but it doesn't mean you have to BE disconnected. Learn where you are and then move forward. I know you can do it. You're both in for the long haul, love.

[a-treitell.livejournal.com]

There isn't much I can say that hasn't been covered above..

But *HUGS* you're (both) in our thoughts.

[margoeve.livejournal.com]

but since my needs are not needs that he has, he just doesn't grok it on an emotional level.

Wow, this comment resonated deeply. I don't know what else to say other than I UNDERSTAND this and am going through the same thing.

However I don't think such a position is completely hopeless. I suppose it is a matter of how far outside of each other's scopes of understanding are these needs.

[matthew-g.livejournal.com]

Not Great: Not being on the same page
Worse: Not being on the same page AND not knowing it

*hug*

As indicated above, a key question here is 'What does *getting* it' look like. You said, "he just doesn't grok it on an emotional level.". To me that sounds like, "I told him it's important me to me, he understands it's important to me and what it is. But he doesn't want it like I want it."

Put another way, when you tell Q about your needs what do you expect him to do with that information? What is the purpose, for you, to tell him the needs?

Long ramble that focuses too much on myself

[quiettigress.livejournal.com]

Put another way, when you tell Q about your needs what do you expect him to do with that information? What is the purpose, for you, to tell him the needs?

The way I understood this may be colored by my personal experiences, but it sounds like something I have run into in several relationships, including familial. It's not a matter of what I want them to do, but a matter of them accepting and understanding the validity and strength of my desires. Someone knows that I value something, they don't get why no matter how much I explain because they are either 1) coming from such a different place that the need is not something they can empathize with or 2) They can't understand that I am allowed to be a different person than they are, with different views and ways of expressing myself.

An example of #1 is my siblings and parents. They do not value education, they value money. My parents wouldn't pay for my college education when I was a teenager and, let me tell you, "financial aid is for students whose parents are poor, not for students whose parents are assholes" is one of my favorite movie quotes. My family was very well off and could pay for college without noticing the effect on their finances. I was valedictorian of my high school class(350 students) and that was just a minor achievement. I attended college at night for 2 years during high school (paid for it myself by holding down a job), played an instrument (first chair), was in a concert band as well as a marching band, 4-H, and raised and trained a guide dog for the blind. I got very little sleep back then. My SATs were through the roof. But even given all the evidence that I was a success in the academic world, that I was motivated to work hard for that success with little or no acknowledgment of my achievements by the people around me, my family saw no reason why I would want to go to college. They never wanted to go. Not one of them. And they reinforced this view in each other. If none of us want to go than not wanting to go is normal and right. Getting a degree is a waste of time and money. They could see my strong desire to be educated, but they couldn't accept that my desire had any weight to it, any real value. They wanted me to change my desires and recognize that conformity and material wealth was the key to happiness. They really expected it to happen at any moment. For several decades. You should have seen them at my Ph.D. hooding ceremony. Totally confounded about what was going on and why everyone else was making a big deal out of it. They only wanted to know what job I was training for and how much I would make. They can't see education as a different thing from vocational training. They can't see that medical research IS a job. I realize now that they will never be able to see things from my viewpoint well enough to really grok me and my values, and I can accept this and love them even when communication is strained.

As for #2, I know someone who believes that I should suppress all of my emotions, deny them, and look at life in a purely logical way because I would get hurt less. They cannot understand that I have the choice to live my life as I wish and that I choose to live how I do. That I do not agree with them is incomprehensible, that they should respect my decisions and not try to change things in my life and environment to what they perceive as best for me (i.e. save me from myself) beyond their keen. They will forever think of me as a small child (and specifically their child) when neither is true and they never even knew me as a child. Surprisingly, it is easier to get though to this person than my actual family. Perhaps because there is more love and respect in this relationship and more effort to work things out when we reach an impasse. The family has written me off as defective and stopped trying to be close. That is OK, because loving them from a long distance is easier.

I've strayed a bit far from what I started to write, but hopefully this will shed a bit of light on how some people deal with not understanding each others desires, and perhaps trigger new thoughts that could be helpful.

Cheers!

[kfitzwarin.livejournal.com]

My experiences with counseling of various sorts are almost always that I feel worse before I feel better (it's like taking antibiotics...:-) The enormity of what's not working sinks in before you start to develop tools to help make it work - it's lots easier to realize what's up than to fix it.

*Hugs* sweeties. Keep up the good work!

[scooterbird.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, yes, this does sound familiar. Very familiar, in fact.

I don't think you need to be depressed about it, because you seem to be making a great deal of progress. This does not mean it will be made every time, nor does it mean that there is a magical "aha!" moment where suddenly he Gets It, and so do you, and all is wonderful forever more. More usually, it's a matter of sitting back, letting things sink in, making small adjustments and minor concessions...and then revisiting things, and re-talking things, like real lovers do.

[drwex]

Having been down this road a couple times myself, some perspective:

- eggs, break, omelettes. Things will definitely get worse before they get better. There's a lot of un-dealt-with stuff that needs to be dealt with.

- the consequences don't always follow, but they do provide a basis for building the kind of understanding you seem to want.

- don't try to articulate, yet. Percolate. Give yourself space to think new thoughts, even if they aren't particularly sensible right this second.

To follow up on what da hubby said

[sweetmmeblue.livejournal.com]

>We both want things to be better, we both want things to not be broken, but neither of us know how to get from here to there anymore.

I understand that frustration of wanting things to be better NOW. However, I think of things not as eggs breaking to make other things but you have to dismantel the structure that has been built over what's not working before you can build what does work. It's not possible to just knock that bit into place and have it magically change everything above it. It's a process.

As for him groking on an emotional level what you need, that may n ot be possible. We are individuals in our own heads, with our own histories and our own way of interpreting input. The circuits may not be there for him to process what you are looking for and come out with the same results. HOWEVER, does he need to grok it on an emotional level? Make a ladder for yourself of the levels of acceptance starting from listening to hearing and so forth until you get up to GROK. Break it down to small steps and what level you could accept him understanding this need of yours at. If it absolutely needs to be at the GROK level, ask yourself why.

>If you can't get a core need met from your partner, what do you do?

You look at the need. You break the need down into pieces until you really understand what this need is and why it's a need. You look at the need from all angles and points of view. You look at the motivations for the need. Then you see if there are other ways that the core portions of the need can be met. If you have a particular script for how this need must be met, why does it need to happen just that way?

Then you talk about what you feel needs to be talked about in order to find some sort of compromise. It may not be a middle ground. It may be one of you having to take a large step and the other a small step. The steps toward compromise may take a while to get to a place you can both accept. However you both need to accept that change will be part of this process and you both may need to stretch yourselves to places that are not comfortable right now but can become comfortable later.

If, after all that the need still cannot be met then you need to ask yourself the question ONLY THEN, "Can I accept him and us as we are w/o this need being met?"

*hugs* if any of this has been helpful, cool. If not, accept it for what it was, free.

[juice-weasel.livejournal.com]

It's always tough to find and work through all the details. This is a stuggle that only the two of you can go through. Hopefully your determination will help you both find the answers you seek and you both have your needs met to each others happiness and satisfaction.

Peace...

[msruth.livejournal.com]

Long ago and another lifetime I went to Marriage Encounter. It's Catholic based so it probably won't be your cup of tea. But what I got out of it I enjoyed quite a bit. Their technique is to keep a journal of letters to one another. You choose a topic each day and for 10 minutes you write to the other person using your feelings. Then you read your letters and talk about them. There's a bit more to it, but that's a great communication technique. The cold reality of seeing it in black and white and expressing yourself in this way can open up wonderful avenues of communication. And since you are both on the same topic...you get the idea.


namaste.

[locus-ofcontrol.livejournal.com]

We both want things to be better, we both want things to not be broken, but neither of us know how to get from here to there anymore. If you can't get a core need met from your partner, what do you do?

If you get a solid answer for this one...do let me know...

I'm looking at where Z & I are and it's sounding a lot like yours. All I know right now, is because we're under stress and KNOW we have stuff to work on and KNOW we have needs to sort out getting met, in one fashion or another, it's NOT the time to be making a major decision about our relationship.

Someone did once say to me "if your primary needs aren't being met by your primary partner, why are you in the relationship?". My challenge to that one is defining WHAT my primary needs are. I have lots of needs, many that ARE met in this relationship. A few that aren't. Are the ones that aren't met, primary? I haven't decided yet. I don't know. Until I know that. I don't do anything but think and listen and learn.

Hugs.

[grail76.livejournal.com]

I'll say a prayer that things work out for you both.

[bkleber.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry this is happening... not fun or pleasant in the least. But I echo everyone else's feelings: you two are doing an incredible amount just by trying to find a counselor, especially more than once. That both of you want things to get better is priceless.

As for core needs being met by my partner...That's a really rough one. I think all of my experience in that realm has been more where very strong wants and desires are not being met, but the core is there. Then again, I'm young, foolish, and optimistic ;-)

*HUGS* Hope to see you around some time soon...