Back to looking at a well used analogy

[make_your_move]

So, in talking with the Wife last night over sewing and stuff, a well used analogy came flying out of my mouth...



"every problem starts to look like a nail" Whoa, stop the presses. You mean all communication problems are not the same? I know that all of them are not the same, but I think somewhere along the way, I've forgotten that not all communications can be solved with only one set of tools. Yes, sometimes I am Captain Obvious.

The problem is, if you have a good tool, you tend to always reach for it first because even if it is not exactly right, most of the time you can MacGuyver a good solution with it. I've spent the morning looking for a post of matthew_g had granted me permission to repost in the last year or so (before I learned to "tag" stuff), and I can't find it - but I remember it was something similar to this. Magnus, if you find it, would you please point me in the right direction?

Q and I are working on a couple of different issues on the communication front. One of them is an old, old issue. We are at a true stalemate on this one, and after about 10 years, I want to stop trying to fix it, and actually get down to really fixing it. The other one(s) we are dealing with - have a lot to do with, what is being said vs. what is being heard. We both have this problem - our knee-jerk reaction or inner 5 year old gets to have first chance at responding and after that, it almost never goes well. In the process of trying to get to whatever has caused me to react like a 5 year old, I use the tools I know the best to peel back the layers, which usually involves a lot more talking and invariabley a lot of questions to my lovely husband. What I don't or haven't realized at the time, is that maybe asking the questions is not the right tool to use at that time. Perhaps what I need to do is stop asking questions, be introspective to the reactions in my own head, and wait.

much_ado has had the benefit (or curse depending on how you look at it) of knowing us both fairly well (and for a long time), and in the process of our discussions this weekend, suggested that perhaps when we are dealing with something in situ, Q may not be always be able to readily identify what his specific wants and needs are at the time, and my process of trying to help him figure that out (using *my* tools for identifying and self-awareness - i.e. questions) all I've managed to engage at that point are his walls of self defense and protection and disengagment. And when that happens, and he pulls back, I take that as a sign of him 'not caring' (hmmm, externalizing that blame much?) *light bulb* and doh!.

Yes, he cares, I know that - we haven't managed to be together for 14 years because we don't care. Often, I don't question that. But I have a hard time dealing with silence, and a much harder time dealing with disengagement as a means of self protection. I grew up in a somewhat typical german family ... loud and with lots of arguments. One of my mom's standard lines was "I yell at you because I love you" - so when the silence descended in my house, there was something seriously wrong. Silence meant shutting one out, emotionally & physically. Lack of hugs and reassurance. Eventually we'd get to a place where one of us would tentatively reach out - usually me. I'd go to my mom sitting on the couch and come and lay my head in her lap. Most of the time, she would reach down and stroke my hair, and I would know that things were going to get better. But I was always afraid, afraid that someday she would just leave (my bio Dad had left when I was younger, different story, but in my head, it equalled abandonment) and so it became harder and harder to deal with. When I was a teenager I finally left first (again, different story, but there's a theme here).

Now I'm looking at where my reactions are coming from and having to short circuit the reactions and the weasels of self justification for acting the way I do and it's well ... not pretty.
I suspect there will be more of these posts forthcoming. I'll put them behind a cut for the disinterested, but this is useful for me to have them out in black and white. And if I can help my friends and tribe with my ramblings, they are here for taking.


So, here I am, looking at my tools and realizing that not every problem is a nail and perhaps what I need is a refresher course and reintroduction to the other things in the box at my feet that I haven't looked at. At least that is what I'm working towards now.

Comments

[bittibuddha.livejournal.com]

I think its a good step forward to realize that the importance should be placed on BOTH "hearing" and "being heard", and that may mean learning new patterns to allow you and Q to both communicate in a (more) comfortable manner. Q and I are similar in our need to go "quiet" for a while to figure out what are the right words to describe whats going on in our heads. I know if Russ made it a habit of barraging me with hard questions during ::that:: period, I would also clam up, get defensive and angry. Its not that I would be mad at ~him~ perse, but frustrated with my own inability to articulate myself clearly and non-threateningly.

relearning how each of you needs to communicate to be heard is good, but relearning how to HEAR each other is probably even more important.

we love our Dorky Wife.

[alricthemad.livejournal.com]

Perhaps what I need to do is stop asking questions, be introspective to the reactions in my own head, and wait.
could be....

So, here I am, looking at my tools and realizing that not every problem is a nail
or maybe you areI am hitting the wrong nail.....

Sounds oooohhhhhh so familiar. Me trying to fix someone else rather than talking about myself.

I am looking forward to what you have to say.

[lapsedagnostic.livejournal.com]

True or not, in hindsight I see a pattern:

[Something Bad Happens]

[Very Intense Emotional Conversation about the event, wants, needs... in which I usually end up behind my walls, saying "okay, okay, okay" a lot.]

[You feel emotionally cut off, I feel bludgeoned.]

[...time passes (usually a couple of days)...]

[We have a much better conversation, usually quite late at night, where communication actually happens. Since I don't hear the anger in your voice, I'm much better at staying open, and saying what I need to say, and hearing what you're trying to say.]

(and, as an aside, I'm a navy brat. Voices were _never_ raised, and showing any emotion at all was a huge sin. It wasn't punished, it just _wasn't_done_. At all. When she starts raising her voice, I shut down. I'm MUCH better about this than I was when we met (I don't actually leave the room / building anymore), but it's still very tough.)

[the-nita.livejournal.com]

I'm a navy brat. Voices were _never_ raised, and showing any emotion at all was a huge sin. It wasn't punished, it just _wasn't_done_. At all.

Wow - that sounds familiar. My father was a navy brat. You've just described his standard approach. It was years before I could get through to the emotional responses of my father.

[bridgeoutahead.livejournal.com]

*omg*

Babe - you just described a LOT of blowups between C and I. L being C and M being me.

YIKES.

Very, very clear pattern and much empathy from me here.

[much-ado.livejournal.com]

L? oh... L for Lapsed. (ok, that was an "I R SMRT" moment)

sorry, when i think in single letter referrants, he's always Q, and it took me a while to figure out who you meant :)

[matthew-g.livejournal.com]

*nod* If it's any consolation, I did't manage to work that out at all. I thought BoAhead was just mis-remembering Q's real name.

[bridgeoutahead.livejournal.com]

I'm in the ROOM! :)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was referring to L as Lapse/as in Q. He's certainly Q, but in LJ-land, he's also L. Like I'm C but also B.

ok. bedtime. :)

Yes

[sierra-victor.livejournal.com]

>Voices were _never_ raised, and showing any emotion at all was a huge sin. It wasn't punished, it just _wasn't_done_. <

In my family, we were punished big-time. The end result was about the same.

I can be very talky, but things get bad, I tend to shut-down and get quiet. The worse they get, the more I withdraw.

And, then it takes time to bounce back. Nothing is really going to speed it up.

So, anyway, my point is Make_Your_Move, my dear, is that he's not the only one who feels this way, and that you're right. Hammering a screw, just rips up the wood--no matter how much your hands Know that a good whack is what's needed.

Take care you two and keep working on it. To paraphrase David Wilcox, a relationship may be hard work, but it's good work if you can get it.

S_V

[msruth.livejournal.com]

Great insight. I really appreciate you putting this out to read. It gives me lots of room to think about my own communication issues.

[much-ado.livejournal.com]

when we are dealing with something in situ, Q may not be always be able to readily identify what his specific wants and needs are at the time, and my process of trying to help him figure that out (using *my* tools for identifying and self-awareness - i.e. questions) all I've managed to engage at that point are his walls of self defense and protection and disengagment.

i liken this - no, actually, this is *exactly* like - to what happened in the car en route to Red's place saturday morning, when you were asking me questions because *your need* was to understand, and *my need* was to get away from the feeling of being "cross-examined" (which i've mentioned to you and elsewhere is something that, thanks to J, i have come to hate as a communications process).

so between us, when you noticed i was getting short/sharp/tense/terse in my responses, you stopped and asked me something different (a check-in, as opposed to furthering your line of investigation), and that was enough to reset much of where we we/i was heading in terms of emotional response and eventual disengagement.

so you're aware that the "line of questions" approach isn't always working, even if you hadn't consciously put all the pieces together to get to the "A-HA!" moment of realizing that no, one tool does NOT solve every type of problem.

this was an excellent realization on your part, babe. it's good work - both the introspective learning, and the externalized sharing.

and when bucky comes in to snarl at me for your ongoing revelations later, i'll have you to thank ;-)

[bridgeoutahead.livejournal.com]

you can count me in too now. I'm shaking my fist too. :(

WOW. Like I said earlier in this thread, M & L have interactions much like C and I have (and still do, sadly).

I have always fallen back on the line of questions approach - at work, at home, in life in general. I get it, sweetie, and I emphasize.

*hug*

Value

[matthew-g.livejournal.com]

I wonder how often I trip that 'cross-examination' reflex. Hrm. Something to watch for, I think.

[dckermit.livejournal.com]

I'm an analyst by character and a fixer by temperment. My first reaction to almost anything is to ask probing questions and offer solutions. A while back someone pointed out to me that there are many situations where the right thing to do is to sit back and listen, and not probe and not try to fix as these actions make the situation worse. This is especially true when the other person is feeling vulnerable for any reason.

Think of it like a knot in a muscle. Sometimes it's good to go right after it, but a lot of times that will just make it worse. You have to give it time to release on its own.

[lil-kevin.livejournal.com]

Communication is not easy. I've studied it formally for 7 years and somethimes I think it only makes things harder. There are so many subtlties to it that most times we just gloss over. It is encouraging to see you recognize that the communication you and Q share is a complex interaction and that it takes thought and work. I have no doubt however, seeing the way you two interact and feel for each other, that you will work through these issues.

[ebullientjenn.livejournal.com]

I really want to print this and take it home and read it to Tim. The pattern you two have established as detailed by lapsedagnostic is almost identical to what Tim and I do. We've been having monstrous blow outs recently. I have a need to fix them, where he'd rather just let them lie.

So far I've asked him to let me know when I get THAT TONE in my voice, because I do it without knowing. He said, well if you hear it from me, most likely it's because you got it first.

Ouch, point taken though. I kept blaming him. Do you mind if I bring this home to read for him?

[make-your-move.livejournal.com]

yes, of course babe.

[drwex]

Good introspective stuff. If I can be of any help, let me know.

[keltique.livejournal.com]

short reply in 5 min i have left of lunch:

yeah, people do have differnt styles of communication, and differnt issues that bring out the knee jerk emo reaction. We've discussed before the danger of "adding value" to whats said. They say: "X!" and we try to interpret andd add on that "x" means *more* than "x", it means "x+y+z!" (in which the "y" and the "z" come from our *own* assumptions, and are ususally Worst Possible Outcome, based on our own internal issues.)

Ergo, we panic and reach for the hammer.

I tend to have a little of both the demo'd reactions depending on the situation and the issue raised. I've take to identifying my KJERs as such, and communicating them as such. ("I'm having a KJER to that satement, based on x+Y+z, i dont *think* thats what you really ment, could you clarify?"

akward, but it gets out the reaction, and my ownership of it, rather than the blaming thing.

:::pant pant in blazing hot car::::

more later, maybe.

tune-ups

[stormthrush.livejournal.com]

I definitely recognize that problem of "dang, this hammer used to work". Sometimes it's not that the tool broke or you need a different one... but rather that you need to use the right tool at the right time.

I've noticed more than once that sometimes the right space needs to be created before a given tool can be used. Just jumping in can get someone's thumb hammered. Many have mentioned active and respectful listening; that is often the best first tool to use.

I find sometimes that if there's been a communications hiatus (even for good reasons like "everything's fine, nothing to discuss"), it can be necessary to re-establish (or re-affirm) the deeper levels of trust needed for the more difficult topics -- even if that level of trust has been reached many times before. The vulnerability that comes with that kind of trust naturally heals/walls itself up again, as we go back out into the world. Sometimes we're not even aware of that happening, and we don't realize that we need to reconfirm trust, in both directions, before starting in again on hard questions.

We all have our own ways of re-establishing this kind of intimacy (and it is intimacy to be sure). For me, eye contact and touching (of the caring/hugging kind), with little if any talk, works. To me this establishes listening, space, and patience, which I need in order to listen better myself, as well as to open my emotions and lay my issues on the table respectfully (and reduce the chance of triggering my own inner 5-year-old).

[bella-peligrosa.livejournal.com]

Excellent points on all fronts. I am particularly sensitive to the silence, myself. It makes me feel like I'm getting nowhere with him, when he's trying to process things so that he can let go of his own hurt and anger. I'm so impatient for resolution that I just can't wait. I'm anxious to see where your introspection goes here...I think there are quite a few of us here that can relate.

[liatha.livejournal.com]

An ounce of perspective...

Q is an introvert. You are an extrovert.

Being an introvert myself, I can tell you that introverts often need quiet time to process information and come to a decision/come up with an idea/understand a situation... as opposed to extroverts, who generally need to talk about things in order to properly process them and come to a decision/come up with an idea/understand a situation.

Sound familiar?

Recognizing the problem is the easy part. Finding a middle ground that you can both live with is the hard part... but I have complete faith that, working together, you both will be able to do so.

It wont be easy... but it's worth it... and don't forget that you have people in your corner.

[camperamy.livejournal.com]

I know there is a lesson in there for me...I see so much of what went on with my X and me. Once the discussion or argument escalated into raised voices, I shut down. Growing up, it was not acceptable to raise your voice...so I had to learn to process the issue first then present it in the most calm way possible. In my marriage - the yelling would overwhelm me, then I'd have to retreat to think about it and come back at another time to discuss. By the time I was ready to talk, my partners feelings were so hurt and I think he felt horribly abandoned. Because our communication skills were so different and at different levels, we often ended up as two five year olds fighting over the same damn toy, over and over and over. I think the fighting part would have been more productive if we had been better equipped communication wise. The hard part is being able to identify the core issue and then find a way to discuss it rationally and feel safe at the same time. Though in hindsight, what was really needed was more listening on both sides and sometimes the realization that an issue/problem doesn't have to be fixed at that moment in time, but could be revisited at another time. Just rambling here now...but your post definitley makes me think...thank you for sharing!

[mgs-naughtycat.livejournal.com]

Thanks for sharing this sweetie, I look forward to whatever else you have to share as well. Communication is something that facinates me, and I'm so good at going after things with the hammer... and you're right it SO doesn't always work :( I need to be a better listener... I think whether I like it or not, its going to be something that I am going to have to learn working with the horses. Sometimes the most important lessons are the hardest oncs to learn.

Thanks.